The place for AP English 11 students to do exactly what The Author warns readers against doing!
Sunday, February 13, 2011
Post #1: Imaginary Law (due Sunday)
Imagine that a law is passed requiring any adult without a high school diploma to work as a servant for those who are more educated. How will you respond to this law?
64 comments:
Kelsey
said...
I believe that this would be a great law to establish in the United States right now. The rate of high school dropouts has increased dramatically in the last two decades, which would mean that when these kids would become adults, they would have less education than their peers who finished high school and went on to receive a college degree. The reason that I think that less educated adults should be servants to more educated adults is because it would then teach them a life lesson about slacking off when their future is at stake. It would also give them a reason to attempt to finish their high school education and maybe even strive to attain a college degree. People who slack off shouldn’t be rewarded; they should be punished for not trying to be the best that they could be. Also, I would benefit from this law because I would have some sap doing my laundry and other menial jobs while I could continue to pursue into higher education. This is a genius idea and I wish it wasn’t just an imaginary law.
I would most certainly not support a law such as this one that promotes segregation. If this law were passed, an extreme imbalance would be created. It would establish an undoubtedly unjust and unbalanced society in which those who are not educated, for whatever reason, would be subjugated to the whims of those who are educated. Not everybody has an equal opportunity to receive a successful education, and sometimes those who do not receive a full education go on to become extremely successful people. History would undoubtedly repeat itself, with those unfairly thrust into servitude taking up arms against the educated class. This can be likened to the bloody French Revolution, where the poor had so much built up anger against the upper class that they lashed out against them. If this were made into law, chaos would surely ensue, and promoters of justice, peace and equality would work tirelessly work to abolish it.
Although it sounds degrading to those who did not complete high school, I could not agree more with this "imaginary law." During high school, you acquire an enormous amount of skills needed to succeed outside of school. Without a high school education, you cannot be trusted in our country with a high-end job. Another reason why I agree with this law is because of the huge amount of stress put on the average worker in the country. The people who worked hard to graduate high school, and had the ambition to find a well paying, successful job, can use all the help they can get. That’s why I think that the people who did not show enough initiative to graduate high school, which is NOT a difficult thing to do at all, should be bound by law to dedicate their lives to “serving” the citizens who took the time to pave the way to a successful future. The final reason that this law would be effective is because this new law will also increase the amount of high school graduates because it gives them something to strive for. Most people have no interest whatsoever in working as a servant for their entire lives, which will give them the kick in the butt that they need to stay in school and get their diploma.
In response to Kelsey... While I agree with the basis of what you are saying, I am some what alarmed that you would support it so strongly. Laziness should not be tolerated but this law allows for no redemption. Also, I feel this law might have the opposite effect because it gives people a reason not to work hard. Being a servant is better than nothing and if you do not get an education, because you are lazy, you are guaranteed some form of employment, which is better than what uneducated people have now, in some respects.
I am positive that this law would not be well received by the majority of Americans, and would only create more problems than it will solve; this would not be a reasonable law. By forcing uneducated people to be enslaved by educated people, we would be taking away their chance to go back to school. For example, someone might have dropped out of high school, but later on in life wanted to go back to school to get their diploma, so that they could get a better job, this law would disable them from doing so. People make mistakes and we need to give them the chance to redeem themselves. Although people with higher educations would be happy about this law, they would not benefit from it. It would cause them to become lazy at home, which would then transfer to the work place, thus our nation would suffer greatly. Also, this law will cause an increased conflict between and increased separation of social classes. America already has enough of problems with violence, crime, and resentment due to money problems. We would only add to this by segregating classes, because then the rich and educated will look down upon the poor and uneducated, causing the poor to dislike the rich.
In response to Sophie: I completely agree with your statement about the law creating "an undoubtedly unjust and unbalanced society". This is so true! Our country supports the idea of equality, and this law goes directly against that. While I know that not everyone is qualified for a certain job, everyone should have the opportunity to get a good job. I noted the idea of resentment between classes in my post as well. This law will only cause more unnecessary segregation. There is currently a growing resentment between social classes in our society today, and it is the catalyst for many of our problems.
After reviewing both the positive and negative outcomes that would come with the passing of this law, I have reached the conclusion that it would hurt our society more than help it. Although I do believe that this law would encourage students to be more driven to graduate high school and get their diploma, I think their intentions would be wrong. The students who would normally give up and drop out would instead simply go through the motions just to graduate, without really trying to get a true education or experience out of it. I’m sure there are better ways to encourage students to graduate high school – ways that don’t involve scaring them into it. Also, while I can say with certainty that the educated class would surely enjoy having people working for them without pay, this relationship essentially constitutes slavery, which is legally wrong according to the Constitution. Now, assuming that in this imaginary scenario, The Thirteenth Amendment is not in the Constitution at all, I still think that this way of living is completely wrong in a moral sense. Another negative outcome of this law would be the widening of the gap between social classes, which, as history shows, is not a desirable occurrence. Finally, I believe that this law would simply be unfair to those without high school diplomas. Although I am not defending high school drop-outs, because I know a lot of them tend to follow the path their already on of not trying to better themselves or others, there are still a lot of people who don’t graduate but still work hard to contribute to society in their own way. Also, many people decide to finish their high school education later in life, and this law would not give them that second chance. Overall, I just do not think that the passing of this law would benefit our nation as a whole.
In response to Alec... You make a really good argument, but I disagree with some aspects of it. You say, "Without a high school education, you cannot be trusted in our country with a high-end job," and while I agree with that, I think it can be assumed that people who don't have high school diplomas usually aren't hired for such jobs, so that shouldn't be a problem anyway. Also, you say graduating high school "is not a difficult thing to do at all" but you are only taking your own perspective into account. Some people struggle with education, and others simply don't have the right environment to reach their full potential. Whether it's about problems at home, or problems with peers at school, I don't think it is fair to assume that graduating high school is easy for everyone. Without this law, people would have the opportunity to earn their diploma later in life when they have more accommodating situations. However, I agree with your final thought about this law being the "kick in the butt" that the students need to finish high school. Overall, even if I disagree with parts of it, you have a well written and well supported response. Nice job, buddy. :)
Thus far, I agree with many of the comments made in retribution of this imaginary law, and several of those in support (surprisingly), but I would not support this law. I find it surprisingly similar to the idea of slavery in that it creates a work force dependant on a "lesser" people, in this case the standard is education. Education is not readily available in many places, fortunately in the US it is, but in many country lack of education cannot be helped. I feel that this law is how many tyrant leaders govern their respective nations. I think it cannot be assumed that the uneducated people that this law would pertain to are uneducated by choice. Additionally, it is unfair to jump to the conclusion that these uneducated people are stupid. Plenty of people who never went to high school or dropped out of high school have gone on to great things. To name a few, Daniel Gilbert (high school dropout now Harvard University psychologist professor), Philip Emeagwali (supercomputer scientist; one of the pioneers of the Internet and high school dropout), H.G. Wells (best-selling British author, dropped out to help family earn income), and Julie Andrews (singer, Oscar-winning actor, writer and high school dropout).
In Response to Emily... I completely agree with your comment that"By forcing uneducated people to be enslaved by educated people, we would be taking away their chance to go back to school". Redemption should be a option for people especially when we can not always know there reason for being uneducated.
In response to Kelsey and Alec.... I feel that is unfair to assume that someone has dropped out of High School because the are lazy or did not want to put forth the effort. People are not able to continue High School, even though they may wish to for medical and economic reasons. And to submit them to the regulations of this law would be taking advantage of their condition and punishing them for something they did not do.
Personally, I would be appalled if a law like this was actually passed. My initial thoughts go back in history to slavery in the United States. This law would just be sending us back into those awful times. This imaginary law correlates directly to slavery in America and how African-American people were not educated because they were not civilized like the Europeans who came to America. Some people in the United States are not brought up in the best of circumstances that provide them the opportunities to become a well educated individual. There are many varieties of families in our country that raise their children in many different ways and some may not push their child to be the most educated individual. I believe that every person should be given the opportunity and privileges to succeed if they so choose. Not everyone has the opportunity to get a high school education, but nothing should prohibit them from working to become a well rounded contributing citizen in other aspects. If this actually did happen their would be a mass outcry against this dreadful law. Our country would be in a mess of trouble trying to hold off those who oppose it versus those who would support the enslavement of undereducated individuals. This would definitely bring about major social, economic and political repercussions.
Having weighed both the positive and negative repercussion of such a law, I have determined that its institution would have a majorly beneficial effect on our modern society. This conclusion is based on the assumption that the subordinate class in the new hierarchy would be reasonably complacent. Slavery is often looked down upon as the scorn of man’s greed and power lust, though it has provided civilizations with unparalleled infrastructure and awe-inspiring spectacles that are marveled at even today. These were the days when slavery was not just the cruel abuse of a different race, but rather it existed as a relationship between a master and his servants. It is just the kind of economic boost that our world could use, a large cheap labor force to be effective in the progression of man. It would give not only a job but also a purpose to many without, and virtually eliminate the need for an unemployment system. However, the system would have inherent problems, prone to corruption and abuse.
In response to Tricia... I like your train of thought in your comment. You have made an excellent point in saying that the law would send us back to the awful days in which we had slavery. It made me think of how some of the southern States have people that still want to separate from the United States. I think that if this law were to be passed, it would only encourage those individuals to take action on this idea.
In response to Olivia... I enjoyed reading your comment. You made excellent points and had superb examples to back them up. I especially liked how you compared this law to the way that tyrant leaders run their countries. This is indeed a plausible scenario that could overcome our country if our government tried to pass a law like this. We would then end up no better than any other country that one hears of on an evening news broadcast. Another aspect of your comment that I enjoyed was your use of naming some of today's most influential people that have not completed high school. I thoroughly agree with the point that you strengthened with these examples. Furthermore, by saying this you kept your comment alive and interesting. Well done!
Most people who do not receive a high school diploma struggle in today’s advanced society; therefore, serving someone might give the person without education a chance to make money and be a constructive person in their community. However, if someone chooses not to get a decent education and doesn’t want to serve someone they shouldn’t have to. People who choose not be educated have made it big in today’s society. For example, there are many professional athletes, entrepreneurs, etc. that never graduated high school but are now rich, influential people. This United States is considered the “Land of the Free” and forcing someone to take up a certain career is infringing on a citizen’s given rights. In my opinion making an uneducated person serve someone else is similar to slavery. Someone shouldn’t be forced into anything. This law would create controversy and seems unethical. I would be against this law if it were put into action.
Not all people who aren't successful are slackers. What about people with learning disabilities or runaways? And in my opinion, people should be allowed to control their own destiny, not have it decided for them. What about second chances? There are people who were drug addicts and drop outs. No one thought that they would be constructive people in society but now they are clean and help other people who are drug addicts. Just because people slack off or don't graduate high school doesn't mean their future should be decided for them. Give them a chance to realized they made a mistake or even prove us wrong.
I do not agree with your response until the last sentence. This system would definitely have a ton of issues with people abusing their power and like I said in my own response send it back to the cruelty of slavery in America's history. I think that it would be extremely hard for individuals to understand the whole concept of having such a law. People would definitely refer back to slavery and use those ideas to make this an unsuccessful law. I understand that it would eliminate an unemployment system but those people would never have the opportunity to get a second chance at getting an education and finding a job.
I do not agree with your statements at all mostly because not all people have the same opportunities and privileges. We grow up in an are where we have very supportive families and people who push us to succeed. Some individuals do not have that core backup that pushes them to get an education. Not everybody that doesn't get an education is a slacker. Some people are really not meant for school and education. Education is definitely not for everyone. They can find those blue collar jobs that they actually really enjoy.
I loved how you said that people would not have the opportunity to get a second chance and redeem themselves. I think that is so crucial in society. Everyone makes mistakes and it is just the level of the mistake but they should have an opportunity to make it up. I also like your reference that this would only cause more problems by more stratification in America.
In response to Kelsey... I could not agree more with your views on this imaginary law. The part that I like the most is when you say that "It (the law) would also give them a reason to attempt to finish their high school education." So if someone is truly opposed to being a servant for their entire life, then they will find a way to obtain their diploma. Whether they persevere through 4 years of high school, or take the GED high school equivalency test, if they truly want a diploma, they can get one. Well written Kelsey.
In response to Jake R... While I disagree with your view on this law, I did like that you acknowledged that it would only work under certain circumstances. You said that this law would only work if "the subordinate class in the new hierarchy would be reasonably complacent", but realistically thinking, I don't think that, in today's society, many members of the lower class would agree to this.
I believe that this law would be absurd. To start off, the amount of laziness that is in the United States is bad as it is now, how do you think it would be if everyone who had a high school diploma would have a servant? People wouldn't have to walk their dogs, do simple chores around the house, make dinner, the little things. But in reality these things are good for you. Simple activities like this are what keep us on our feet and active. If this were to happen to the United States I would expect to see a inflation of the amount of people suffering from obesity. As well as laziness being an issue the types of jobs people will have will be an issue as well. If you take every person who doesn't have a high school diploma and make them a servant that is going to leave a huge gap of jobs for people who have little education. This will almost punish high school graduates by making higher educated jobs harder to get and lower educated jobs easier to get.
In response to Casey... I like how you relate to people without education who have made a big impact on peoples lives and for some of us on our own lives. This gives a different perspective on how you can approach this "imaginary law" in my opinion. It made me think if there was anybody that I have once looked up to at one point in my life who may of not graduated high school and what kind of person they are. Some of these people were not able to finish high school just because of the environment the grew up in, who influenced them, and what was expected of them. Does any of this suggest that they are bad people because of it and in return should be put into a form of servant? I do not think so.
I understand that you think that these lazy people would have something to do after they drop out of high school, but your forgetting that Mr. Clements said that they are NOT getting paid! How are they supporting themselves? They are most likely usurping from their friends and family who have jobs and who didn't drop out of school. This just goes to show that they do not have something to look forward to after they drop out of school, they are just hurting their loved ones more. And on the note of redemption, I believe that everyone has a second chance, and if you did fully read my comment, I said that by being degraded by this law, they would have a more legitimate reason to try and finish their schooling by getting a GED. Now I know your going to ask, how are they supposed to do that if they are serving as someones unpaid servant? Well that's easy, since they are already usurping money from their friends and family to survive, I'm sure those people would be glad to give that person money so that he/she could attempt to get a better education and escape their servitude.
In response to Alec... Thank you, I'm glad someone here agrees with me. You were able to pull the one thing out of my comment that mattered the most, the fact about them attempting to get a better education. Olivia totally bashed my comment by saying I didn't give them a chance at redemption. Well I did and you found it. Snaps for you!
In response to Olivia... Hellooooo, earth to Olivia, public schools are free, and even if you drop out you still need to pay school taxes. This is just wasting your parents money because they're paying for something you refuse to take advantage of. How does economics have anything to do with free public schools? And about the medical thing, there are people who have jobs who are trained to help people with medical disabilities to achieve the highest degree of education that they are physically and mentally able to achieve. IU-13 is a perfect example of this. The people who work with those students are determined to give them the best education that they could possibly achieve.
In response to Casey... I am giving them a chance by saying that being someone's servant will show them their mistakes and make them want to better their lives. I agree with you completely about people who have proven society wrong, but I have to say that's a very small percentage of people who were able to get their act together without some form of punishment lingering over their heads. Bad behavior invokes punishment, but with good behavior, that punishment can be lifted. I have no comment on the runaways because those kids were attempting to escape another form of punishment. There definitely need to be some concessions to this law regarding this type of situation, as well as other situations. But any regular student who thinks school is lame and slacks off should have a punishment for being lazy. Society doesn't need lazy people to do work that could be done by people who would commit fully to the job at hand.
In response to Tricia... I agree that some people are not meant for school, but don't those blue collar jobs such as contractors need some schooling in the skills and tricks of the trade? That would require schooling by their bosses, it would almost be like an apprenticeship. That would count as schooling because it is furthering their education towards their career. Isn't that the same thing that school prepares you for, to go into a career?
I completely agree with your slavery analogy. Why would anybody want to revert to something that took our nation so long to get out of? I also agree that not everybody is born into the same circumstances. A child who goes to a central city Philadelphia school certainly does not have the same opportunities as a child who comes from an affluent family and goes to a private school in suburban Washington, D.C. Different families value education in different ways as well. Where a child is born and into what circumstances they are born in should not decide whether or not they become a servant.
If such a law would be passed, I don't think that I would be pleased with it. This law would not only infringe on our human rights given and protected by our Constitution, but it would be completely impractical. The government would not be able to organize and enforce the law in an effective manner. They would also run into the issue of resistance from the people of our country. Our people are quite familiar and accustom to our current freedoms. Also, it has been proven that when they feel that their rights are not being respected they will take action. Therefore, it would only be a matter of time for our people to react and fight back against the government. The United States of America is a country that is defined by the excellent opportunities that are available to every citizen to fulfill their dreams, and enjoy their freedoms. On a more personal and human level, this law is unfair to the hundreds and thousands of people that are not fortunate to attend high school or complete their education experience. Not every family in the United States can afford to push their children to try and excel in school. Because of all of these reasons, I believe that if this law would come into effect, the government would be faced with countless obstacles that would result in its downfall.
If this law were to be passed, I would disagree with it. Assuming this law applies to everyone, there would be many people who would unfairly be forced into being servants. There are many people who made bad choices in their lives, who eventually dropped out of high school and didn't receive a diploma because of their own stupidity. I wouldn't mind if these people were forced to be servants, because it is their own dumb fault. BUT it is the people who don't have their diplomas for other reasons that would be treated unfairly by this law. Some people are so poor or have really bad home lives that it isn't possible for them to go to school and do well. A lot of situations would depend, but it isn't fair to clump all of the people without a diploma into the same situation. It wouldn’t be fair for everybody, even though I would totally agree with this if it were only those stupid people who made horrible choices and don’t have an excuse for being diploma-less that were forced to be servants.
In response to Jake R.... I totally agree with you, and I'm glad that you took a more historical approach to your reasoning. That is exactly the kind of relationship that would make this law work and with how the economy is right now, we could really use this kind of a economic boost. I once again wish that this was not just a writing prompt but an actual law.
In response to Paige... I disagree with the poor part because I've already stated my case on that subject with Olivia. Also, the bad homes would have to be another concession to the law. This law would need a few concessions before it would be a good thing to be put into action. I'm glad that you agree with the fact that lazy people deserve this punishment.
In response to Vicki... Kudos. That's all I can say because your argument, except for the less fortunate part which I have already covered in another post, is the only compelling argument that goes against my opinion. I believe that you are right about the government creating its own downfall with this law and I'm glad someone was able to present an air-tight argument that I have absolutely nothing to counter with. You took a very unique path with your argument and I'm extremely glad that you did. Snaps for you!
I completely agree with your ideas, and your reasons are exactly why this law would be ridiculous to pass! I really like your reference to history and the French Revolution, because this is a completely realistic possibility. The servant people will inevitably get fed up with their treatment, and will eventually rebel against the government. That would obviously not be good at all! To pass this law would simply be putting the country into A LOT of crazy chaos.
If such a law were in effect, I would use my influence to do whatever necessary in order to abolish it. Obtaining a high school diploma is an exceptionally small component of one’s life. Granted, in today’s world especially there is an immense amount of energy directed towards education and its noteworthiness. However, I feel that an individual’s significance and role in his/her society should be based on much more than a high school education. Admirable traits such as kindheartedness, warmth, morals, self-drive, and positive leadership qualities should determine who works for whom. These qualities are independent of a high school diploma! Significance should be placed in one’s personal character, in regards to where he/she falls within the social ladder. Obtaining a high school diploma is a shallow task that can be accomplished by anyone. If somebody hasn’t a high school diploma, a law should not hinder his/her opportunities in life. Many times, it is not their fault! Natural setbacks occur in life to everyone, and many a time this includes preventing somebody from obtaining a proper education. My point is, proper, positive leaders can (and should) come from anywhere, and a piece of paper that implies his/her participation in education should not determine his/her role in society. The importance should lie within one’s character.
In response to Casey I agree with your thoughts. Without a doubt, enabling such a law would strongly conflict with our nation's outward image of being the "Land of the Free", as you stated. I think it is extremely important to provide a fair, equal opportunity to everyone, regardless of social or economic (or educational) status. I think it's notable that you recognized a potential positive aspect that could come about as a result of this law being real, in that you acknowledged work as a servant as a method by which those without a formal education could learn more and develop themselves. However, I feel that it shouldn't be forced just as you said. The number one priority should be an individual's happiness, and forcing someone to do something is likely to hinder his/her ability to enjoy life and achieve happiness. Nice thoughts!
In response to Vicki... I completely agree with you! I thought it was really good that you brought up that people might revolt. As seen with some past governmental changes, if the people don't agree with it, they will make that known to the government. You are right, this law goes against everything our country stands for.
(I probably shouldn't have waited so long to respond, all the valid points have been taken. However, bear with me as I explain my reasoning.)
If a law was established that required people without a high-school diploma to become servants to those who do, I would be completely OPPOSED to this law. There are a plethora of reasons as to why I would be against such a law. However, I am only going to mention a few. Firstly, I believe that forcing a group of people into servitude is morally wrong. Throughout history, I have generally sided with the groups of people who have strong moral values and try to do the right thing. (For example, I support the North's cause in the Civil War.) A second reason as to why I would not support such a law is because I believe in the fundamental principle that everybody is different and not following the "norm" is okay. Because of this, it frustrates me that some people feel that they ought to be given the right to control another group of people because they chose not to complete their education. There is no logical reason why people should be forced into slavery because of their choice not to complete high-school. It's their choice, let them be. Everybody is different, so who are you to say "Oh, you didn't graduate high-school? Well then, I guess you have to be my servant now." That's completely and utterly ridiculous. Different people have different priorities. Just because someone followed a different path in life doesn't mean they're wrong. We all know that one can become successful without completing high-school. Also, graduating high-school does not guarantee that you will be successful in life. Generalizing people without a high-school diploma as "second-rate", "saps", and "slackers" really rustles my jimmies.
Alec there are some flaws in you response. I'll do my best to point out a few of them. You make the assumption in your response that everyone who graduates high-school is "successful" and finds a "well-paying job". That statement is false. Not everybody who graduates high-school becomes successful. In fact, not every college graduate becomes successful. Measuring success is dependent upon the individual, and while graduating high-school may be considered a success to some, it guarantees nothing in the future. Also, you say that people who didn't graduate high-school can't be trusted with a high-end job. This statement really bothers me. Even people that have received quality educations from some our finest universities and colleges have made poor decisions that ended up being detrimental to our country. (For example, the CEO's that caused the financial melt-down in 2008.) This leads me to believe that even education does not guarantee success. With that being said, why should we punishing people for their belief that they can be successful without graduating high-school?
Personally, I would think of this law as rediculous and disrespectful. People without a high school diploma could have numerous reasons to not have said education: some students would have faced the problem of needing to work instead of attending school, so they drop out without graduating and start working. If this law was then enforced, this person would have to go work for someone with the education as a servant. In short, the student left school to financially support himself/herself and is then robbed of his future earnings by having to go work for a graduate. Another example would be is if a student is not that able to develop well in school. He/she could work and study as much as possible, but still end up failing and being expelled, thus having no diploma. This law would not be appropriate to put in place on the world for non-educated persons. Many face personal problems that are the reasons for not having a diploma. They do not get the chance to earn it, so why should they have to be subjected to a life of servitude? While being servants, these people would then not have the chance to go get some equivalent to a diploma due to their captivity. On another note, if someone has a higher education than another, why should he/she need servants? The graduated would have a much easier chance at a better paying job and more sustainable lifestyle for the future. As the graduated live easy, the ones without education stuggle and try to make ends meet. Where is the justice in this law?
In response to Kelsey's post on February 22, 2011 at 8:24 AM...
In my post, I have addressed some of the issues counteracting you idea of "slackers." Some of these people may not have slacked off, they could have had life-altering decisions that changed the outcomes of their high school educations. These people need not be punished, they should either be given another chance at life and education or simply to be able to work a job without having to work as a penniless servant. In reference to real "slackers," than yes they should be "punished." I do not agree with the idea of being a servant, though. A higher educated person should have nothing to do with the others without the diploma. The "punishment" is the fact that it will be more diffult to discover a stable job and career for the future.
In response to Sophia's post on February 22, 2011 at 8:25 AM...
I agree with the imbalance between the educated and the uneducated among society. People without diplomas should not be subjected to an injustice as servitude. Another reference to history would be what we are currently focusing on, the issue of slavery in the United States. The educated would be the white people, and the uneducated would be the slaves. Slaves had to serve the whites as would the uneducated people, for whatever reason for their noneducation, would serve the graduated. In reference to your idea about how some uneducated people become very sucessful, some educated people do not become successful. Look at the modern society of musicians and performers: MC Hammer went broke, Wesley Snipes committed tax evasion, and Willie Nelson also had problems with taxes. All of these people made millions, then did misdoings that caused them to crumble. In general Sophie, I agree with your opinions!
In response to Alec's post on February 22, 2011 at 8:28 AM...
I agree with your idea of giving the uneducated something to strive for. Great intiative, could not agree more. But I do have to say for some it is difficult to do well in school. Besides many personal problems that could be in effect, others try their hardest at many subjects and still struggle with no success. I'm sure we have all dealt with that issue on a lesser scale, but others deal with it more severely. Referencing your idea that people without the diploma cannot be trusted with high-end jobs, what if your entire life you have worked on a farm. As a child your father taught you how a tractor works. He taught you the mechanics and how to repair one. By the age of eight, you would be repairing a tractor by yourself and helping your father plow an entire field. Fast forward twelve years and your friend has a job opening at a tractor repair company. Besides a diploma, you are completely qualified, but you do not get the job. A man with a diploma, but has never even touched a tractor is given the job. This man causes a tractor accident killing ten people when, after reading the newspaper article about this accident, you realize it was a simple malfunction with the brakes that could have been fixed in five minutes. But yet you cannot be trusted?
In response to Emily's post on February 22, 2011 at 2:11 PM...
I completely agree with your ideas. The imbalance, the rivalries, and the injustice would be inevitable. Why should revolts and conflicts arise over an issue of a diploma? Then being robbed of the opportunity of returning to school is completely wrong. These people would want to try again, and with this law in effect, they could not.
I would denounce this law, and I feel as if the majority of sane Americans would too. Many high-school dropouts fulfill a much needed job sector in our economy, for who else would clean the gutters, pick up the trash, and serve us fast food (from 7AM-2:30PM, in homage of all the high-schoolers who work at Mcdonalds)? As many others have pointed out, not everyone requires a high-school education in order to be successful. Not only that, but a law such as this one closely resembles slavery, an institution which of course is completely unfair, unethical, and immoral. On another note, a large social gap would be formed if this law were passed, which has been proven to have a very negative aspect of any society. Above all other opposing arguments, this decree desecrates our founding fathers assertion that EVERY American citizen has the right to “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness”. All supporting arguments should stop here, for it is simple, a law that opposes a constitutional amendment (in this case, the 5th), does not reside in the USA. No ifs, ands, or buts. Any other bit of reasoning should not be needed or even considered in order to easily shoot down this absurd law.
I love the point you made on how the little things the servants would now do would just make the rest of America lazier. I completely agree with your idea on how these little tasks keep us on our feet and energized. Your post also spurred another key idea into my mind. The majority of people who drop out of high-school are extremely lazy, defiant, or malicious, so what makes anyone think they they would function as a servant, a position they would be FORCED to work at? The last thing they were forced to do obviously didn't work out, so what makes people think this could be any different?
If such a ridiculous law were passed, it would create an entirely new problem for the human race to overcome. One can not set up such a system and not expect a type of segregation to arise. Already there is a stereotype placed on the kind of people who work "high school drop out" jobs such as a burger-flipper at McDonald's, trash man, etc. This stereotype would most likely be taken to the extreme, and very few would be left to actually work those vital jobs. This law would also provoke protest from millions within the sane community. Not everyone without a high school diploma is in that situation due to his/her own actions. Some are forced to drop out so they can work a job to support their families already in poverty. Why should it be a high school diploma that determines ones role in society? It is obvious that if this type of law were not rejected instantly, many problems would ensue. I also feel as though many of the more educated would refuse to be served in that way anyway!
In response to Theo... I like that you approached this question from such a different aspect. I also agree that high school drop outs should not be assumed to be horrible people. I noticed that you said something about the importance of a good character. If only jobs were actually attained just by being a good person with good traits! The sad thing is, if this law were actually imposed, it is the "nice" high school drop outs that would abide by it while the other ones would probably refuse to be a servant. Good ideas!
In response to Emma... You make a number of good points on both the breaches of legality and the immorality of the law. Though we are then faced with the difficult and paramount question of, "what is moral?", and who is to define those terms. An answer to this question could essentially make this blog obsolete, but fortunately for those who like arguing and the involved Mr. Clemens, a universally agreeable answer has eluded humanity thus far and I am confident that it will for an equal or greater amount of time into the future. I would also like to dispute an assumption that Emma had made regarding the inability of the drop-outs to later obtain a high school level diploma. I believe that they should be allowed means of later earning a GED, even during their time of servitude. It then would be significantly more difficult, but there is no stipulation against it mentioned in the law.
In response to Theo... Though you make some excellent points on the various ways that one's life can be measured, I must disagree with your assertions that those who possess kindheartedness, "body heat", morals, self-drive, and leadership play a vital enough role in our society, for I believe that persons who possess such qualities would already hold a high school diploma if they have brain function. For those who are the exception to the rule, go get one, because if you are special enough as to be a master of such highly valued moral characteristic it should be no problem, and learning something couldn't hurt.
Because of the law's idea of servitude, in my opinion, I cannot agree completely with its implications and most likely would take action against it. First of all, I would put my foot down on the basis that our country has already survived a bout with slavery, and need not be tested by another one. What good could come of forcing people into servitude simply because they are less educated? Secondly, I would say that if this law were passed, it would be like putting the brakes on our society. As it has in the past, does now, and will in the future, our society requires a constant flow of skilled and trained workers to keep it moving and keep producing fresh ideas to drive its advancement. In today's world, many of these skilled workers are people who have less education than the next guy, but just might be the best guy to turn to for a certain trade in the area. For a lot of these skills, a full education isn't necessary - and it's these blue-collar jobs that help form the backbone of our society. Forcing these less-educated but nonetheless skilled workers into servitude would be cutting into that flow of a fresh workforce and severely impeding the ability of our society to advance. Instead of simply acting as servants, if this law did need to be passed, it should be worded so that the people in question were able to be put into a position where they would have the opportunity to learn a skill or trade and help our society along.
I completely agree with all of the points you made in your response. I especially liked how you brought up the idea of how higher educated people wouldn't need servants. It is true that educated people would be well off enough that they would be able to support themselves without the need for the help of a servant. I also like the different scenarios you discussed concerning high school dropouts. We see this all too prevalently in today's society, and there is little we can do to change it - it will always happen, no matter what policies may be put in place to help prevent it. There will always be some people who will have, as you said it, "personal problems," and to put them into a position of servitude would definitely be unfair.
I completely agree with everything you said. More often than not high-school drop outs don't do much with their lives. However, that still does not give anyone the right to deny them their rights of “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” That being said, there we no illegitimate points in your response. Kudos.
I personally would never support a law that forces people to serve others against their will. All this would do is promote the mistreatment of people who others believe they are superior to and would undoubtably bring more harm than good. This could also trigger a pattern of people that are uneducated not being able to get an education and society reverting back to a feudalistic set-up, destroying the middle class and ensuring that the rich are always above the poor. Eventually, the poor would have had enough and could very well turn to revolution which would lead to turmoil that would tear our country apart.
In response to Kelsey... I understand where you are coming from by saying that you think this law should be reality but you have to consider a things that you dont see in small towns like Annville. All across the US people, such as kids in the inner cities, are set up to fail from the moment they were born. They have no support or way to succeed in school because many of them are spending their days simply trying to survive. If you were to pass this law, all of these people who never had a chance to begin with would be punished for something that they cant control.
Every society requires a “servant” class, but this is not the way to acquire that. Just because a person did not receive a high school diploma doesn’t necessarily mean that that person is destined to be a “servant”; in fact, many high school dropouts have gone on to be millionaires through practical cleverness and entrepreneurship. I strongly reject the generalization that every person who didn’t get through high school is a stupid failure. On the flipside, education says nothing about one’s intellect and where they should stand socially. A person may not truly be bright, but if his parents have connections and money, you can surely bank on a good education for him. These cases are by no means the majority for high school dropouts or well-educated persons respectively, but they are surely plentiful enough for me to disagree with a law that would force everyone without a high school diploma to be a “servant” to those who are educated (my idea of “educated” is a person who goes to college, disregarding their character or how well they did in college). The servant role in society will always naturally be filled; there is no need to force it upon everyone that doesn’t see success in high school. Freedom for natural human ingenuity is crucial for the success of every society. This law negates that concept.
In response to Jake Rita… I actually mainly agree with what you had to say, but I’m afraid that our only disagreement comes down to the connotation we get from slavery. In essence, it was hard work that created the wonders of the world, not slavery itself. Hard work can still exist without slavery, and people can join together to accomplish when all of them need to, not when one powerful figure wants them to. For instance, after America was attacked at Pearl Harbor, FDR didn’t need to have slaves and force them to start up an amazing war effort. The country unanimously agreed to work to save the future of the country, and ultimately, the world. It did incredible things economically and sent the U.S. on its path to becoming the sole world superpower.
I cannot BELIEVE how good these comments are. I honestly don't even know where to begin, because so many of you brought up some unbelievable points. I love the lively discussion that arose out of Kelsey's initial reactions to the law. And, admittedly, the thought of having someone to help me run errands (especially at this time of the year) seemed awfully appealing, but naturally, there were some valid points brought up that made me shake off that desire to have someone to help me with those extraneous errands. Jake--loved your intelligent and thoughtful response. Loved Joe's jimmies being rustled by some of the comments, and I loved Jacob's bringing this back to the matter of hand (relating the "educated" to the whites from the novel and the "non-educated" to the African Americans from the novel). Mitch---was curious what you meant by every country needed a "slave" role. In all, you all did an EXCELLENT job---keep it up, because these kinds of lengthy, intelligent, and insightful comments are EXACTLY what this blogging assignment is about. I'm very, very pleased with reading these!
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64 comments:
I believe that this would be a great law to establish in the United States right now. The rate of high school dropouts has increased dramatically in the last two decades, which would mean that when these kids would become adults, they would have less education than their peers who finished high school and went on to receive a college degree. The reason that I think that less educated adults should be servants to more educated adults is because it would then teach them a life lesson about slacking off when their future is at stake. It would also give them a reason to attempt to finish their high school education and maybe even strive to attain a college degree. People who slack off shouldn’t be rewarded; they should be punished for not trying to be the best that they could be. Also, I would benefit from this law because I would have some sap doing my laundry and other menial jobs while I could continue to pursue into higher education. This is a genius idea and I wish it wasn’t just an imaginary law.
I would most certainly not support a law such as this one that promotes segregation. If this law were passed, an extreme imbalance would be created. It would establish an undoubtedly unjust and unbalanced society in which those who are not educated, for whatever reason, would be subjugated to the whims of those who are educated. Not everybody has an equal opportunity to receive a successful education, and sometimes those who do not receive a full education go on to become extremely successful people. History would undoubtedly repeat itself, with those unfairly thrust into servitude taking up arms against the educated class. This can be likened to the bloody French Revolution, where the poor had so much built up anger against the upper class that they lashed out against them. If this were made into law, chaos would surely ensue, and promoters of justice, peace and equality would work tirelessly work to abolish it.
Although it sounds degrading to those who did not complete high school, I could not agree more with this "imaginary law." During high school, you acquire an enormous amount of skills needed to succeed outside of school. Without a high school education, you cannot be trusted in our country with a high-end job. Another reason why I agree with this law is because of the huge amount of stress put on the average worker in the country. The people who worked hard to graduate high school, and had the ambition to find a well paying, successful job, can use all the help they can get. That’s why I think that the people who did not show enough initiative to graduate high school, which is NOT a difficult thing to do at all, should be bound by law to dedicate their lives to “serving” the citizens who took the time to pave the way to a successful future. The final reason that this law would be effective is because this new law will also increase the amount of high school graduates because it gives them something to strive for. Most people have no interest whatsoever in working as a servant for their entire lives, which will give them the kick in the butt that they need to stay in school and get their diploma.
In response to Kelsey...
While I agree with the basis of what you are saying, I am some what alarmed that you would support it so strongly. Laziness should not be tolerated but this law allows for no redemption. Also, I feel this law might have the opposite effect because it gives people a reason not to work hard. Being a servant is better than nothing and if you do not get an education, because you are lazy, you are guaranteed some form of employment, which is better than what uneducated people have now, in some respects.
I am positive that this law would not be well received by the majority of Americans, and would only create more problems than it will solve; this would not be a reasonable law. By forcing uneducated people to be enslaved by educated people, we would be taking away their chance to go back to school. For example, someone might have dropped out of high school, but later on in life wanted to go back to school to get their diploma, so that they could get a better job, this law would disable them from doing so. People make mistakes and we need to give them the chance to redeem themselves. Although people with higher educations would be happy about this law, they would not benefit from it. It would cause them to become lazy at home, which would then transfer to the work place, thus our nation would suffer greatly. Also, this law will cause an increased conflict between and increased separation of social classes. America already has enough of problems with violence, crime, and resentment due to money problems. We would only add to this by segregating classes, because then the rich and educated will look down upon the poor and uneducated, causing the poor to dislike the rich.
In response to Sophie:
I completely agree with your statement about the law creating "an undoubtedly unjust and unbalanced society". This is so true! Our country supports the idea of equality, and this law goes directly against that. While I know that not everyone is qualified for a certain job, everyone should have the opportunity to get a good job.
I noted the idea of resentment between classes in my post as well. This law will only cause more unnecessary segregation. There is currently a growing resentment between social classes in our society today, and it is the catalyst for many of our problems.
After reviewing both the positive and negative outcomes that would come with the passing of this law, I have reached the conclusion that it would hurt our society more than help it. Although I do believe that this law would encourage students to be more driven to graduate high school and get their diploma, I think their intentions would be wrong. The students who would normally give up and drop out would instead simply go through the motions just to graduate, without really trying to get a true education or experience out of it. I’m sure there are better ways to encourage students to graduate high school – ways that don’t involve scaring them into it. Also, while I can say with certainty that the educated class would surely enjoy having people working for them without pay, this relationship essentially constitutes slavery, which is legally wrong according to the Constitution. Now, assuming that in this imaginary scenario, The Thirteenth Amendment is not in the Constitution at all, I still think that this way of living is completely wrong in a moral sense. Another negative outcome of this law would be the widening of the gap between social classes, which, as history shows, is not a desirable occurrence. Finally, I believe that this law would simply be unfair to those without high school diplomas. Although I am not defending high school drop-outs, because I know a lot of them tend to follow the path their already on of not trying to better themselves or others, there are still a lot of people who don’t graduate but still work hard to contribute to society in their own way. Also, many people decide to finish their high school education later in life, and this law would not give them that second chance. Overall, I just do not think that the passing of this law would benefit our nation as a whole.
In response to Alec...
You make a really good argument, but I disagree with some aspects of it. You say, "Without a high school education, you cannot be trusted in our country with a high-end job," and while I agree with that, I think it can be assumed that people who don't have high school diplomas usually aren't hired for such jobs, so that shouldn't be a problem anyway. Also, you say graduating high school "is not a difficult thing to do at all" but you are only taking your own perspective into account. Some people struggle with education, and others simply don't have the right environment to reach their full potential. Whether it's about problems at home, or problems with peers at school, I don't think it is fair to assume that graduating high school is easy for everyone. Without this law, people would have the opportunity to earn their diploma later in life when they have more accommodating situations. However, I agree with your final thought about this law being the "kick in the butt" that the students need to finish high school. Overall, even if I disagree with parts of it, you have a well written and well supported response. Nice job, buddy. :)
Thus far, I agree with many of the comments made in retribution of this imaginary law, and several of those in support (surprisingly), but I would not support this law. I find it surprisingly similar to the idea of slavery in that it creates a work force dependant on a "lesser" people, in this case the standard is education. Education is not readily available in many places, fortunately in the US it is, but in many country lack of education cannot be helped. I feel that this law is how many tyrant leaders govern their respective nations. I think it cannot be assumed that the uneducated people that this law would pertain to are uneducated by choice. Additionally, it is unfair to jump to the conclusion that these uneducated people are stupid. Plenty of people who never went to high school or dropped out of high school have gone on to great things. To name a few, Daniel Gilbert (high school dropout now Harvard University psychologist professor), Philip Emeagwali (supercomputer scientist; one of the pioneers of the Internet and high school dropout), H.G. Wells (best-selling British author, dropped out to help family earn income), and Julie Andrews (singer, Oscar-winning actor, writer and high school dropout).
In Response to Emily...
I completely agree with your comment that"By forcing uneducated people to be enslaved by educated people, we would be taking away their chance to go back to school". Redemption should be a option for people especially when we can not always know there reason for being uneducated.
In response to Kelsey and Alec....
I feel that is unfair to assume that someone has dropped out of High School because the are lazy or did not want to put forth the effort. People are not able to continue High School, even though they may wish to for medical and economic reasons. And to submit them to the regulations of this law would be taking advantage of their condition and punishing them for something they did not do.
Personally, I would be appalled if a law like this was actually passed. My initial thoughts go back in history to slavery in the United States. This law would just be sending us back into those awful times. This imaginary law correlates directly to slavery in America and how African-American people were not educated because they were not civilized like the Europeans who came to America. Some people in the United States are not brought up in the best of circumstances that provide them the opportunities to become a well educated individual. There are many varieties of families in our country that raise their children in many different ways and some may not push their child to be the most educated individual. I believe that every person should be given the opportunity and privileges to succeed if they so choose. Not everyone has the opportunity to get a high school education, but nothing should prohibit them from working to become a well rounded contributing citizen in other aspects. If this actually did happen their would be a mass outcry against this dreadful law. Our country would be in a mess of trouble trying to hold off those who oppose it versus those who would support the enslavement of undereducated individuals. This would definitely bring about major social, economic and political repercussions.
Having weighed both the positive and negative repercussion of such a law, I have determined that its institution would have a majorly beneficial effect on our modern society. This conclusion is based on the assumption that the subordinate class in the new hierarchy would be reasonably complacent. Slavery is often looked down upon as the scorn of man’s greed and power lust, though it has provided civilizations with unparalleled infrastructure and awe-inspiring spectacles that are marveled at even today. These were the days when slavery was not just the cruel abuse of a different race, but rather it existed as a relationship between a master and his servants. It is just the kind of economic boost that our world could use, a large cheap labor force to be effective in the progression of man. It would give not only a job but also a purpose to many without, and virtually eliminate the need for an unemployment system. However, the system would have inherent problems, prone to corruption and abuse.
In response to Tricia...
I like your train of thought in your comment. You have made an excellent point in saying that the law would send us back to the awful days in which we had slavery. It made me think of how some of the southern States have people that still want to separate from the United States. I think that if this law were to be passed, it would only encourage those individuals to take action on this idea.
In response to Olivia...
I enjoyed reading your comment. You made excellent points and had superb examples to back them up. I especially liked how you compared this law to the way that tyrant leaders run their countries. This is indeed a plausible scenario that could overcome our country if our government tried to pass a law like this. We would then end up no better than any other country that one hears of on an evening news broadcast. Another aspect of your comment that I enjoyed was your use of naming some of today's most influential people that have not completed high school. I thoroughly agree with the point that you strengthened with these examples. Furthermore, by saying this you kept your comment alive and interesting. Well done!
Most people who do not receive a high school diploma struggle in today’s advanced society; therefore, serving someone might give the person without education a chance to make money and be a constructive person in their community. However, if someone chooses not to get a decent education and doesn’t want to serve someone they shouldn’t have to. People who choose not be educated have made it big in today’s society. For example, there are many professional athletes, entrepreneurs, etc. that never graduated high school but are now rich, influential people. This United States is considered the “Land of the Free” and forcing someone to take up a certain career is infringing on a citizen’s given rights. In my opinion making an uneducated person serve someone else is similar to slavery. Someone shouldn’t be forced into anything. This law would create controversy and seems unethical. I would be against this law if it were put into action.
In response to Kelsey...
Not all people who aren't successful are slackers. What about people with learning disabilities or runaways? And in my opinion, people should be allowed to control their own destiny, not have it decided for them. What about second chances? There are people who were drug addicts and drop outs. No one thought that they would be constructive people in society but now they are clean and help other people who are drug addicts. Just because people slack off or don't graduate high school doesn't mean their future should be decided for them. Give them a chance to realized they made a mistake or even prove us wrong.
In response to Jake R...
I do not agree with your response until the last sentence. This system would definitely have a ton of issues with people abusing their power and like I said in my own response send it back to the cruelty of slavery in America's history. I think that it would be extremely hard for individuals to understand the whole concept of having such a law. People would definitely refer back to slavery and use those ideas to make this an unsuccessful law. I understand that it would eliminate an unemployment system but those people would never have the opportunity to get a second chance at getting an education and finding a job.
In response to Kelsey...
I do not agree with your statements at all mostly because not all people have the same opportunities and privileges. We grow up in an are where we have very supportive families and people who push us to succeed. Some individuals do not have that core backup that pushes them to get an education. Not everybody that doesn't get an education is a slacker. Some people are really not meant for school and education. Education is definitely not for everyone. They can find those blue collar jobs that they actually really enjoy.
In response to Emily...
I loved how you said that people would not have the opportunity to get a second chance and redeem themselves. I think that is so crucial in society. Everyone makes mistakes and it is just the level of the mistake but they should have an opportunity to make it up. I also like your reference that this would only cause more problems by more stratification in America.
In response to Kelsey...
I could not agree more with your views on this imaginary law. The part that I like the most is when you say that "It (the law) would also give them a reason to attempt to finish their high school education." So if someone is truly opposed to being a servant for their entire life, then they will find a way to obtain their diploma. Whether they persevere through 4 years of high school, or take the GED high school equivalency test, if they truly want a diploma, they can get one. Well written Kelsey.
In response to Jake R...
While I disagree with your view on this law, I did like that you acknowledged that it would only work under certain circumstances. You said that this law would only work if "the subordinate class in the new hierarchy would be reasonably complacent", but realistically thinking, I don't think that, in today's society, many members of the lower class would agree to this.
I believe that this law would be absurd. To start off, the amount of laziness that is in the United States is bad as it is now, how do you think it would be if everyone who had a high school diploma would have a servant? People wouldn't have to walk their dogs, do simple chores around the house, make dinner, the little things. But in reality these things are good for you. Simple activities like this are what keep us on our feet and active. If this were to happen to the United States I would expect to see a inflation of the amount of people suffering from obesity. As well as laziness being an issue the types of jobs people will have will be an issue as well. If you take every person who doesn't have a high school diploma and make them a servant that is going to leave a huge gap of jobs for people who have little education. This will almost punish high school graduates by making higher educated jobs harder to get and lower educated jobs easier to get.
In response to Casey...
I like how you relate to people without education who have made a big impact on peoples lives and for some of us on our own lives. This gives a different perspective on how you can approach this "imaginary law" in my opinion. It made me think if there was anybody that I have once looked up to at one point in my life who may of not graduated high school and what kind of person they are. Some of these people were not able to finish high school just because of the environment the grew up in, who influenced them, and what was expected of them. Does any of this suggest that they are bad people because of it and in return should be put into a form of servant? I do not think so.
In response to Olivia...
I understand that you think that these lazy people would have something to do after they drop out of high school, but your forgetting that Mr. Clements said that they are NOT getting paid! How are they supporting themselves? They are most likely usurping from their friends and family who have jobs and who didn't drop out of school. This just goes to show that they do not have something to look forward to after they drop out of school, they are just hurting their loved ones more. And on the note of redemption, I believe that everyone has a second chance, and if you did fully read my comment, I said that by being degraded by this law, they would have a more legitimate reason to try and finish their schooling by getting a GED. Now I know your going to ask, how are they supposed to do that if they are serving as someones unpaid servant? Well that's easy, since they are already usurping money from their friends and family to survive, I'm sure those people would be glad to give that person money so that he/she could attempt to get a better education and escape their servitude.
In response to Alec...
Thank you, I'm glad someone here agrees with me. You were able to pull the one thing out of my comment that mattered the most, the fact about them attempting to get a better education. Olivia totally bashed my comment by saying I didn't give them a chance at redemption. Well I did and you found it. Snaps for you!
In response to Olivia...
Hellooooo, earth to Olivia, public schools are free, and even if you drop out you still need to pay school taxes. This is just wasting your parents money because they're paying for something you refuse to take advantage of. How does economics have anything to do with free public schools? And about the medical thing, there are people who have jobs who are trained to help people with medical disabilities to achieve the highest degree of education that they are physically and mentally able to achieve. IU-13 is a perfect example of this. The people who work with those students are determined to give them the best education that they could possibly achieve.
In response to Casey...
I am giving them a chance by saying that being someone's servant will show them their mistakes and make them want to better their lives. I agree with you completely about people who have proven society wrong, but I have to say that's a very small percentage of people who were able to get their act together without some form of punishment lingering over their heads. Bad behavior invokes punishment, but with good behavior, that punishment can be lifted. I have no comment on the runaways because those kids were attempting to escape another form of punishment. There definitely need to be some concessions to this law regarding this type of situation, as well as other situations. But any regular student who thinks school is lame and slacks off should have a punishment for being lazy. Society doesn't need lazy people to do work that could be done by people who would commit fully to the job at hand.
In response to Tricia...
I agree that some people are not meant for school, but don't those blue collar jobs such as contractors need some schooling in the skills and tricks of the trade? That would require schooling by their bosses, it would almost be like an apprenticeship. That would count as schooling because it is furthering their education towards their career. Isn't that the same thing that school prepares you for, to go into a career?
In response to Tricia,
I completely agree with your slavery analogy. Why would anybody want to revert to something that took our nation so long to get out of? I also agree that not everybody is born into the same circumstances. A child who goes to a central city Philadelphia school certainly does not have the same opportunities as a child who comes from an affluent family and goes to a private school in suburban Washington, D.C. Different families value education in different ways as well. Where a child is born and into what circumstances they are born in should not decide whether or not they become a servant.
If such a law would be passed, I don't think that I would be pleased with it. This law would not only infringe on our human rights given and protected by our Constitution, but it would be completely impractical. The government would not be able to organize and enforce the law in an effective manner. They would also run into the issue of resistance from the people of our country. Our people are quite familiar and accustom to our current freedoms. Also, it has been proven that when they feel that their rights are not being respected they will take action. Therefore, it would only be a matter of time for our people to react and fight back against the government. The United States of America is a country that is defined by the excellent opportunities that are available to every citizen to fulfill their dreams, and enjoy their freedoms. On a more personal and human level, this law is unfair to the hundreds and thousands of people that are not fortunate to attend high school or complete their education experience. Not every family in the United States can afford to push their children to try and excel in school. Because of all of these reasons, I believe that if this law would come into effect, the government would be faced with countless obstacles that would result in its downfall.
If this law were to be passed, I would disagree with it. Assuming this law applies to everyone, there would be many people who would unfairly be forced into being servants. There are many people who made bad choices in their lives, who eventually dropped out of high school and didn't receive a diploma because of their own stupidity. I wouldn't mind if these people were forced to be servants, because it is their own dumb fault. BUT it is the people who don't have their diplomas for other reasons that would be treated unfairly by this law. Some people are so poor or have really bad home lives that it isn't possible for them to go to school and do well. A lot of situations would depend, but it isn't fair to clump all of the people without a diploma into the same situation. It wouldn’t be fair for everybody, even though I would totally agree with this if it were only those stupid people who made horrible choices and don’t have an excuse for being diploma-less that were forced to be servants.
In response to Jake R....
I totally agree with you, and I'm glad that you took a more historical approach to your reasoning. That is exactly the kind of relationship that would make this law work and with how the economy is right now, we could really use this kind of a economic boost. I once again wish that this was not just a writing prompt but an actual law.
In response to Paige...
I disagree with the poor part because I've already stated my case on that subject with Olivia. Also, the bad homes would have to be another concession to the law. This law would need a few concessions before it would be a good thing to be put into action. I'm glad that you agree with the fact that lazy people deserve this punishment.
In response to Vicki...
Kudos. That's all I can say because your argument, except for the less fortunate part which I have already covered in another post, is the only compelling argument that goes against my opinion. I believe that you are right about the government creating its own downfall with this law and I'm glad someone was able to present an air-tight argument that I have absolutely nothing to counter with. You took a very unique path with your argument and I'm extremely glad that you did. Snaps for you!
In Response to Sophie...
I completely agree with your ideas, and your reasons are exactly why this law would be ridiculous to pass! I really like your reference to history and the French Revolution, because this is a completely realistic possibility. The servant people will inevitably get fed up with their treatment, and will eventually rebel against the government. That would obviously not be good at all! To pass this law would simply be putting the country into A LOT of crazy chaos.
If such a law were in effect, I would use my influence to do whatever necessary in order to abolish it. Obtaining a high school diploma is an exceptionally small component of one’s life. Granted, in today’s world especially there is an immense amount of energy directed towards education and its noteworthiness. However, I feel that an individual’s significance and role in his/her society should be based on much more than a high school education. Admirable traits such as kindheartedness, warmth, morals, self-drive, and positive leadership qualities should determine who works for whom. These qualities are independent of a high school diploma! Significance should be placed in one’s personal character, in regards to where he/she falls within the social ladder. Obtaining a high school diploma is a shallow task that can be accomplished by anyone. If somebody hasn’t a high school diploma, a law should not hinder his/her opportunities in life. Many times, it is not their fault! Natural setbacks occur in life to everyone, and many a time this includes preventing somebody from obtaining a proper education. My point is, proper, positive leaders can (and should) come from anywhere, and a piece of paper that implies his/her participation in education should not determine his/her role in society. The importance should lie within one’s character.
In response to Casey
I agree with your thoughts. Without a doubt, enabling such a law would strongly conflict with our nation's outward image of being the "Land of the Free", as you stated. I think it is extremely important to provide a fair, equal opportunity to everyone, regardless of social or economic (or educational) status. I think it's notable that you recognized a potential positive aspect that could come about as a result of this law being real, in that you acknowledged work as a servant as a method by which those without a formal education could learn more and develop themselves. However, I feel that it shouldn't be forced just as you said. The number one priority should be an individual's happiness, and forcing someone to do something is likely to hinder his/her ability to enjoy life and achieve happiness. Nice thoughts!
In response to Vicki...
I completely agree with you! I thought it was really good that you brought up that people might revolt. As seen with some past governmental changes, if the people don't agree with it, they will make that known to the government. You are right, this law goes against everything our country stands for.
(I probably shouldn't have waited so long to respond, all the valid points have been taken. However, bear with me as I explain my reasoning.)
If a law was established that required people without a high-school diploma to become servants to those who do, I would be completely OPPOSED to this law. There are a plethora of reasons as to why I would be against such a law. However, I am only going to mention a few. Firstly, I believe that forcing a group of people into servitude is morally wrong. Throughout history, I have generally sided with the groups of people who have strong moral values and try to do the right thing. (For example, I support the North's cause in the Civil War.)
A second reason as to why I would not support such a law is because I believe in the fundamental principle that everybody is different and not following the "norm" is okay. Because of this, it frustrates me that some people feel that they ought to be given the right to control another group of people because they chose not to complete their education. There is no logical reason why people should be forced into slavery because of their choice not to complete high-school. It's their choice, let them be. Everybody is different, so who are you to say "Oh, you didn't graduate high-school? Well then, I guess you have to be my servant now." That's completely and utterly ridiculous. Different people have different priorities. Just because someone followed a different path in life doesn't mean they're wrong.
We all know that one can become successful without completing high-school. Also, graduating high-school does not guarantee that you will be successful in life. Generalizing people without a high-school diploma as "second-rate", "saps", and "slackers" really rustles my jimmies.
In response to Alec..
Alec there are some flaws in you response. I'll do my best to point out a few of them.
You make the assumption in your response that everyone who graduates high-school is "successful" and finds a "well-paying job". That statement is false. Not everybody who graduates high-school becomes successful. In fact, not every college graduate becomes successful. Measuring success is dependent upon the individual, and while graduating high-school may be considered a success to some, it guarantees nothing in the future. Also, you say that people who didn't graduate high-school can't be trusted with a high-end job. This statement really bothers me. Even people that have received quality educations from some our finest universities and colleges have made poor decisions that ended up being detrimental to our country. (For example, the CEO's that caused the financial melt-down in 2008.) This leads me to believe that even education does not guarantee success. With that being said, why should we punishing people for their belief that they can be successful without graduating high-school?
Personally, I would think of this law as rediculous and disrespectful. People without a high school diploma could have numerous reasons to not have said education: some students would have faced the problem of needing to work instead of attending school, so they drop out without graduating and start working. If this law was then enforced, this person would have to go work for someone with the education as a servant. In short, the student left school to financially support himself/herself and is then robbed of his future earnings by having to go work for a graduate. Another example would be is if a student is not that able to develop well in school. He/she could work and study as much as possible, but still end up failing and being expelled, thus having no diploma. This law would not be appropriate to put in place on the world for non-educated persons. Many face personal problems that are the reasons for not having a diploma. They do not get the chance to earn it, so why should they have to be subjected to a life of servitude? While being servants, these people would then not have the chance to go get some equivalent to a diploma due to their captivity. On another note, if someone has a higher education than another, why should he/she need servants? The graduated would have a much easier chance at a better paying job and more sustainable lifestyle for the future. As the graduated live easy, the ones without education stuggle and try to make ends meet. Where is the justice in this law?
In response to Kelsey's post on February 22, 2011 at 8:24 AM...
In my post, I have addressed some of the issues counteracting you idea of "slackers." Some of these people may not have slacked off, they could have had life-altering decisions that changed the outcomes of their high school educations. These people need not be punished, they should either be given another chance at life and education or simply to be able to work a job without having to work as a penniless servant. In reference to real "slackers," than yes they should be "punished." I do not agree with the idea of being a servant, though. A higher educated person should have nothing to do with the others without the diploma. The "punishment" is the fact that it will be more diffult to discover a stable job and career for the future.
In response to Sophia's post on February 22, 2011 at 8:25 AM...
I agree with the imbalance between the educated and the uneducated among society. People without diplomas should not be subjected to an injustice as servitude. Another reference to history would be what we are currently focusing on, the issue of slavery in the United States. The educated would be the white people, and the uneducated would be the slaves. Slaves had to serve the whites as would the uneducated people, for whatever reason for their noneducation, would serve the graduated. In reference to your idea about how some uneducated people become very sucessful, some educated people do not become successful. Look at the modern society of musicians and performers: MC Hammer went broke, Wesley Snipes committed tax evasion, and Willie Nelson also had problems with taxes. All of these people made millions, then did misdoings that caused them to crumble. In general Sophie, I agree with your opinions!
In response to Alec's post on February 22, 2011 at 8:28 AM...
I agree with your idea of giving the uneducated something to strive for. Great intiative, could not agree more. But I do have to say for some it is difficult to do well in school. Besides many personal problems that could be in effect, others try their hardest at many subjects and still struggle with no success. I'm sure we have all dealt with that issue on a lesser scale, but others deal with it more severely. Referencing your idea that people without the diploma cannot be trusted with high-end jobs, what if your entire life you have worked on a farm. As a child your father taught you how a tractor works. He taught you the mechanics and how to repair one. By the age of eight, you would be repairing a tractor by yourself and helping your father plow an entire field. Fast forward twelve years and your friend has a job opening at a tractor repair company. Besides a diploma, you are completely qualified, but you do not get the job. A man with a diploma, but has never even touched a tractor is given the job. This man causes a tractor accident killing ten people when, after reading the newspaper article about this accident, you realize it was a simple malfunction with the brakes that could have been fixed in five minutes. But yet you cannot be trusted?
In response to Emily's post on February 22, 2011 at 2:11 PM...
I completely agree with your ideas. The imbalance, the rivalries, and the injustice would be inevitable. Why should revolts and conflicts arise over an issue of a diploma? Then being robbed of the opportunity of returning to school is completely wrong. These people would want to try again, and with this law in effect, they could not.
I would denounce this law, and I feel as if the majority of sane Americans would too. Many high-school dropouts fulfill a much needed job sector in our economy, for who else would clean the gutters, pick up the trash, and serve us fast food (from 7AM-2:30PM, in homage of all the high-schoolers who work at Mcdonalds)? As many others have pointed out, not everyone requires a high-school education in order to be successful. Not only that, but a law such as this one closely resembles slavery, an institution which of course is completely unfair, unethical, and immoral. On another note, a large social gap would be formed if this law were passed, which has been proven to have a very negative aspect of any society. Above all other opposing arguments, this decree desecrates our founding fathers assertion that EVERY American citizen has the right to “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness”. All supporting arguments should stop here, for it is simple, a law that opposes a constitutional amendment (in this case, the 5th), does not reside in the USA. No ifs, ands, or buts. Any other bit of reasoning should not be needed or even considered in order to easily shoot down this absurd law.
In response to Nick...
I love the point you made on how the little things the servants would now do would just make the rest of America lazier. I completely agree with your idea on how these little tasks keep us on our feet and energized. Your post also spurred another key idea into my mind. The majority of people who drop out of high-school are extremely lazy, defiant, or malicious, so what makes anyone think they they would function as a servant, a position they would be FORCED to work at? The last thing they were forced to do obviously didn't work out, so what makes people think this could be any different?
If such a ridiculous law were passed, it would create an entirely new problem for the human race to overcome. One can not set up such a system and not expect a type of segregation to arise. Already there is a stereotype placed on the kind of people who work "high school drop out" jobs such as a burger-flipper at McDonald's, trash man, etc. This stereotype would most likely be taken to the extreme, and very few would be left to actually work those vital jobs.
This law would also provoke protest from millions within the sane community. Not everyone without a high school diploma is in that situation due to his/her own actions. Some are forced to drop out so they can work a job to support their families already in poverty. Why should it be a high school diploma that determines ones role in society? It is obvious that if this type of law were not rejected instantly, many problems would ensue. I also feel as though many of the more educated would refuse to be served in that way anyway!
In response to Theo...
I like that you approached this question from such a different aspect. I also agree that high school drop outs should not be assumed to be horrible people. I noticed that you said something about the importance of a good character. If only jobs were actually attained just by being a good person with good traits! The sad thing is, if this law were actually imposed, it is the "nice" high school drop outs that would abide by it while the other ones would probably refuse to be a servant. Good ideas!
In response to Emma...
You make a number of good points on both the breaches of legality and the immorality of the law. Though we are then faced with the difficult and paramount question of, "what is moral?", and who is to define those terms. An answer to this question could essentially make this blog obsolete, but fortunately for those who like arguing and the involved Mr. Clemens, a universally agreeable answer has eluded humanity thus far and I am confident that it will for an equal or greater amount of time into the future. I would also like to dispute an assumption that Emma had made regarding the inability of the drop-outs to later obtain a high school level diploma. I believe that they should be allowed means of later earning a GED, even during their time of servitude. It then would be significantly more difficult, but there is no stipulation against it mentioned in the law.
In response to Theo...
Though you make some excellent points on the various ways that one's life can be measured, I must disagree with your assertions that those who possess kindheartedness, "body heat", morals, self-drive, and leadership play a vital enough role in our society, for I believe that persons who possess such qualities would already hold a high school diploma if they have brain function. For those who are the exception to the rule, go get one, because if you are special enough as to be a master of such highly valued moral characteristic it should be no problem, and learning something couldn't hurt.
Because of the law's idea of servitude, in my opinion, I cannot agree completely with its implications and most likely would take action against it. First of all, I would put my foot down on the basis that our country has already survived a bout with slavery, and need not be tested by another one. What good could come of forcing people into servitude simply because they are less educated? Secondly, I would say that if this law were passed, it would be like putting the brakes on our society. As it has in the past, does now, and will in the future, our society requires a constant flow of skilled and trained workers to keep it moving and keep producing fresh ideas to drive its advancement. In today's world, many of these skilled workers are people who have less education than the next guy, but just might be the best guy to turn to for a certain trade in the area. For a lot of these skills, a full education isn't necessary - and it's these blue-collar jobs that help form the backbone of our society. Forcing these less-educated but nonetheless skilled workers into servitude would be cutting into that flow of a fresh workforce and severely impeding the ability of our society to advance. Instead of simply acting as servants, if this law did need to be passed, it should be worded so that the people in question were able to be put into a position where they would have the opportunity to learn a skill or trade and help our society along.
In response to Jacob L...
I completely agree with all of the points you made in your response. I especially liked how you brought up the idea of how higher educated people wouldn't need servants. It is true that educated people would be well off enough that they would be able to support themselves without the need for the help of a servant. I also like the different scenarios you discussed concerning high school dropouts. We see this all too prevalently in today's society, and there is little we can do to change it - it will always happen, no matter what policies may be put in place to help prevent it. There will always be some people who will have, as you said it, "personal problems," and to put them into a position of servitude would definitely be unfair.
In response to Elliot.
I completely agree with everything you said. More often than not high-school drop outs don't do much with their lives. However, that still does not give anyone the right to deny them their rights of “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” That being said, there we no illegitimate points in your response. Kudos.
I personally would never support a law that forces people to serve others against their will. All this would do is promote the mistreatment of people who others believe they are superior to and would undoubtably bring more harm than good. This could also trigger a pattern of people that are uneducated not being able to get an education and society reverting back to a feudalistic set-up, destroying the middle class and ensuring that the rich are always above the poor. Eventually, the poor would have had enough and could very well turn to revolution which would lead to turmoil that would tear our country apart.
In response to Kelsey...
I understand where you are coming from by saying that you think this law should be reality but you have to consider a things that you dont see in small towns like Annville. All across the US people, such as kids in the inner cities, are set up to fail from the moment they were born. They have no support or way to succeed in school because many of them are spending their days simply trying to survive. If you were to pass this law, all of these people who never had a chance to begin with would be punished for something that they cant control.
Every society requires a “servant” class, but this is not the way to acquire that. Just because a person did not receive a high school diploma doesn’t necessarily mean that that person is destined to be a “servant”; in fact, many high school dropouts have gone on to be millionaires through practical cleverness and entrepreneurship. I strongly reject the generalization that every person who didn’t get through high school is a stupid failure. On the flipside, education says nothing about one’s intellect and where they should stand socially. A person may not truly be bright, but if his parents have connections and money, you can surely bank on a good education for him. These cases are by no means the majority for high school dropouts or well-educated persons respectively, but they are surely plentiful enough for me to disagree with a law that would force everyone without a high school diploma to be a “servant” to those who are educated (my idea of “educated” is a person who goes to college, disregarding their character or how well they did in college). The servant role in society will always naturally be filled; there is no need to force it upon everyone that doesn’t see success in high school. Freedom for natural human ingenuity is crucial for the success of every society. This law negates that concept.
In response to Jake Rita…
I actually mainly agree with what you had to say, but I’m afraid that our only disagreement comes down to the connotation we get from slavery. In essence, it was hard work that created the wonders of the world, not slavery itself. Hard work can still exist without slavery, and people can join together to accomplish when all of them need to, not when one powerful figure wants them to. For instance, after America was attacked at Pearl Harbor, FDR didn’t need to have slaves and force them to start up an amazing war effort. The country unanimously agreed to work to save the future of the country, and ultimately, the world. It did incredible things economically and sent the U.S. on its path to becoming the sole world superpower.
WOW!!!!!!
I cannot BELIEVE how good these comments are. I honestly don't even know where to begin, because so many of you brought up some unbelievable points. I love the lively discussion that arose out of Kelsey's initial reactions to the law. And, admittedly, the thought of having someone to help me run errands (especially at this time of the year) seemed awfully appealing, but naturally, there were some valid points brought up that made me shake off that desire to have someone to help me with those extraneous errands. Jake--loved your intelligent and thoughtful response. Loved Joe's jimmies being rustled by some of the comments, and I loved Jacob's bringing this back to the matter of hand (relating the "educated" to the whites from the novel and the "non-educated" to the African Americans from the novel). Mitch---was curious what you meant by every country needed a "slave" role. In all, you all did an EXCELLENT job---keep it up, because these kinds of lengthy, intelligent, and insightful comments are EXACTLY what this blogging assignment is about. I'm very, very pleased with reading these!
I would like to applaud Adrian in his response to Kelsey for explaining exactly what I was trying to convey!
Checked 3/9/11
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